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Legislative Assembly for the ACT: 1996 Week 7 Hansard (19 June) . . Page.. 1887 ..

MRS CARNELL (continuing):

If those opposite wanted a briefing about my advice, they got it straight from Dr Hughes this morning on radio. He said categorically that the first thing he knew about it was when he investigated it, on a request from me for information about a previous government's figures. It was not information about our figures, not information about our trending - all of the things I am responsible for, Mr Speaker. What I am not responsible for is that a previous government double-counted day surgery for 13 months and misled the community by indicating that somehow the situation at Woden Valley Hospital was wonderful; that operations were up, throughput was up, and everything was hunky-dory. Mr Berry actually saying that is in Hansard, Mr Speaker. It was not just out there in the community; it is here in Hansard, as I quoted in my first speech. Mr Berry said categorically that the hospital was operating better in all areas because the figures showed it. It is true that the figures did show it; but the figures were categorically shonky, Mr Speaker.

What we are deciding here today is: Who is responsible for figures produced under a Minister? Is the Minister responsible for his or her own figures? I do not think there are two ways to look at that. The fact is that we are responsible. I am responsible for my figures, for my performance as Health Minister, and this Assembly has made it very clear to me that it is willing to censure me when it does not believe that I am performing as well as it believes I should, even if I am relying on statistics or a model from a previous government. Mr Berry has to have the guts to actually say, "Yes, I am responsible for the figures that were produced under me. If they are wrong, then I am responsible".

This Assembly made it clear to me when the VMO savings that, in all honesty, I believed would occur, based upon a model that had been used by a previous government, did not happen. This Assembly said, "That is not good enough, Mrs Carnell. We are going to censure you". Fine. That is what this Assembly did. But let us have some consistency here. Surely Ministers are responsible for figures that are produced and used under them. Surely a new Minister who republishes or uses in documents figures that were produced under a previous government cannot be held responsible for figures that were put together under a previous government, Mr Speaker. If that were the case, we could never accept any budget figures, any figures whatsoever, that were put together under a previous government, because by their very nature we would have to take responsibility for them. That is ridiculous, Mr Speaker.

I will come back to the issue here. This Assembly, in the past, has said categorically that Ministers are responsible for what happens under them in their departments when they are Ministers. Under Mr Berry, day surgery was double-counted. There was a situation where, by Mr Berry saying that things were improving in every aspect of the hospital, the community, the people in the hospital, Canberrans generally and this Assembly were all led to believe that there was substantially more surgery happening than actually was happening. That cannot be questioned. It is actually there in Hansard. Mr Berry saying that things were improving in every aspect of the hospital is there in Hansard. Mr Berry saying that information was available on all aspects of hospital activity is there in Hansard. It is there, it was there, and it was available to Mr Berry. The bottom line here, Mr Speaker, is that we need some consistency from this whole Assembly. You cannot censure one Minister for things that happened under that Minister's operation and then say that somehow that is not consistent across the board.

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