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Legislative Assembly for the ACT: 1997 Week 14 Hansard (11 December) . . Page.. 5024 ..

Ms Tucker: Mr Speaker, I seek leave to allow Mr Whitecross to have time to finish the debate. Some people here think this is important and have to vote. Mrs Littlewood has said nothing, and she has no right to stop this debate.

MR SPEAKER: Is it the wish of the Assembly to suspend voting so that we may return to the debate? It will be on condition from the Chair that people behave themselves and stop shouting. The Greens wish to listen to the debate. They do not want you screaming and shouting like young children. Is it the wish of the Assembly to stop the bells? There being no objection, the bells can be stopped.

MR WHITECROSS (9.40): Mr Speaker, I seek an extension of time. (Extension of time granted) I was concluding when Mr Kaine interrupted with his point of order. I was saying in conclusion that in this debate the Government had not advanced any evidence that double demerits had any effect. The experience and the opinion of criminologists is that the key element of deterrence is the risk of being caught, not the size of the penalty. There is plenty of legal history of people jacking up penalties and having death penalties or whatever they like, but it is the risk of being caught and the seriousness with which people take the prospect of the penalty being applied which matter.

It is the educational approach which this Government takes to persuading people that drink-driving, speeding, negligent driving and driving when you are tired are dangerous things to do that will make the difference this Christmas. They are the things we would like the Government to concentrate on. They will have our full support if they concentrate on those matters. They are much harder things to do than just thumping the drum about double demerit points and law and order. That is what we want to see this Government focusing its energies on, because that is what is going to make a real difference.

I believe that this law is ill conceived. I do not believe that the appropriate approach is to have an arbitrary system where on days of the Minister's choosing a different penalty will apply. That is not a prescription for a just rule of law and a sensible rule of law. We all know that at holiday times like Christmas more people are killed and injured on our roads. That is because there are a lot more people on our roads. Because there are more people on our roads, the risks are higher and the need for people to pay attention and to be cautious in their driving habits is very real. At any time you are on the road you have to be cautious about your driving habits. It might just be an ordinary weekend. You still have to be cautious about your driving habits, because there is a real risk of putting lives at risk and putting yourself and others at risk of injury any time you go on the road. That is why these things ought to be taken seriously and that is why the Labor Party will support any efforts by the Government to persuade people to drive carefully, to stay under the speed limit and not to drink and drive this holiday season or at any other time. We will not support arbitrary changes to penalties according to the whim of the Minister. That is why we have moved this motion today.

I urge the Greens and the crossbenches to support this motion. We are quite serious about consistency in the application of law, not arbitrary decisions about the application of law according to externalities. If I drive at speed, I should be punished according to the law, not because it is a particular day of the year and there are a lot of other people

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