Page 226 - Week 02 - Tuesday, 12 May 1992
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Madam Speaker, I also wish to make a statement under standing order 46 - - -
MADAM SPEAKER: Mr Kaine, I am sorry to interrupt you. You have been asked to withdraw it because it is unparliamentary to accuse someone of making untrue statements. I believe that you have made a statement in explanation, on which people can make their own judgments in terms of your statements and Ms Follett's statements. You have been asked to withdraw the imputation that what she says is untrue, and I believe that you should.
Mr Humphries: On the point of order, Madam Speaker: With respect, I believe that the ruling that you have made is in error, and I would like to argue the case. It is certainly against standing orders to suggest that someone has knowingly lied to or misled the Assembly or knowingly said something to the Assembly which they know not to be true. Mr Kaine has not put that in those terms.
Ms Follett: He has; he has just said that.
Mr Humphries: He has not said that. He has said that what Ms Follett has said is untrue, that she has made an untrue statement. That, with respect, Madam Speaker, as Mr Kaine has established, is quite the case. That is not a matter that he ought to withdraw. It is a question of whether or not he is alleging that Ms Follett knowingly misled the Assembly or knowingly told something to the Assembly that is untrue. I would argue, Madam Speaker, that that has not been the case; Mr Kaine has not alleged any knowledge on Ms Follett's part.
MADAM SPEAKER: It was my understanding that Mr Kaine did say that Ms Follett knowingly made a statement that was untrue, and it was on that basis that I asked him to withdraw that.
Mr Humphries: Madam Speaker, on the same basis, Mr Berry made the same statement this afternoon about Mrs Carnell. There was no request to withdraw that matter.
Mr Lamont: Madam Speaker, I rise on a point of order as well. Mr Humphries has attempted to debate the issue. I understand that you have issued a request to Mr Kaine to withdraw his statement. He should do so or depart.
MADAM SPEAKER: I have made that request, Mr Kaine.
MR KAINE: Madam Speaker, in deference to you, if I made any incorrect imputation against the Chief Minister, I withdraw it. The fact is that what she said is not true, and I want that on the record. I withdraw anything that flows from that, beyond that.
Ms Follett: Madam Speaker, that is a qualified withdrawal. If Mr Kaine were simply to withdraw any imputation, I think that would settle the matter; and I would ask him to do so.
MADAM SPEAKER: Mr Kaine, I did believe that in the first part of your statement you did withdraw the imputation that what Ms Follett said was untrue. May we stay with that withdrawal, please?
MR KAINE: Madam Speaker, obviously neither you nor the Chief Minister listened to what I just said. I said that what the Chief Minister said was untrue - that is patently a fact - and that I withdraw any imputation beyond that. But I am certainly not going to withdraw a factual statement that needs to be on the record.
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