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Legislative Assembly for the ACT: 2003 Week 1 Hansard (19 February) . . Page.. 204 ..

MR QUINLAN (continuing):

It is important to understand the difference between costing and pricing. If you are in business and, let's say, you have a sale once a year. How you account for the costs and the margin you make on the goods in the sale is probably irrelevant and you probably do not keep that; you just say, "Over the year we sold so many widgets and paid so much, on average, for them and sold them for so much, on average, sometimes at the normal retail prices and sometimes at sale price, and that is the answer we got."

Businesses in a similar process will have core business and will involve themselves in marginal pricing where they can make more money, even though they can price the next bit of business at below average cost, because they are increasing the volume over the same degree of fixed costs-cost, volume and profit analysis. I don't know how far to go with that, but what I am trying to explain is that what people may be complaining about is pricing.

Totalcare and, to a large extent, the government as well complain about pricing because Totalcare is being undercut itself by people who employ day labour, people who employ single contracts-one person, one vehicle, one mobile phone-on and on and off basis, which is part of the casualisation of the overall work force which we do not think in the long term is a good thing, but we will not go too far into the philosophical part.

What we have offered in the course of the day, particularly to Ms Dundas-I think she would have got the message-is a confidential briefing. We are prepared to get Totalcare to give you all the facts so that you understand where it is at in the business. We are prepared to make, by virtue of the amendment that I have moved, the Auditor-General the arbiter of what Totalcare can claim as commercial-in-confidence and what it cannot.

I agree with what you have said and what Mr Cornwell has said; studies have shown that within contracts between government and the private sector, 80 per cent of the commercial-in-confidence stamps are applied by governments, not by the people out in the private sector. Governments tend to be more reticent to give information, for whatever reason, and don't want to there necessarily. But with some of the businesses, if you actually told the world at large the numbers required by this motion you would be giving Totalcare's opposition effectively its cost structure and its pricing structure and they would have competitive information that Totalcare does not have on them. Talking about competitive disadvantage, giving this information out may saddle Totalcare, struggling though it is, with a competitive disadvantage. We do not want to go there.

If Mr Smyth moves his amendment, I think we can accommodate the request. It is not going to be very informative, it is going to take a fair bit of work and it is not going to tell you much, but we can do it and it would also obviate the need for the Auditor-General to be involved, because we would no longer need that arbitration as we could say that we could do it. I might want to speak again because I am the only one on this side of the house speaking, but I will close at that point.

MR DEPUTY SPEAKER: I understand that Mr Smyth wishes to move his amendment and we already have an amendment before the house. Do you wish to withdraw your amendment, Mr Treasurer, and allow Mr Smyth to move his.

Mr Quinlan: Yes. I seek leave to withdraw my amendment.

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