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Legislative Assembly for the ACT: 2000 Week 9 Hansard (7 September) . . Page.. 3038 ..

MR STEFANIAK (continuing):

Mrs Carnell mentioned the Chinese students who come here. Yes, I think more and more of them will be coming here. From living in a democratic society in Australia, they will hear criticism of what their regime is doing. They will hear it from their friends. They will see it and hear it in the media. Surely that is a very good way of getting a point across.

Mr Speaker, why are they coming here? I was in China recently and had talks with officials there. I was interested to hear one senior official say that they like to have their students coming here not only because it is a safe place and for a number of other reasons like that but also because of our education system, which makes students think and challenges them. A communist official said that. If they have that kind of attitude, surely the logical result of that will be that things happening in their own country will be challenged, which would only lead to further improvements.

I do not think that we will get anywhere at all by backing Ms Tucker's motion, by making such a gesture. We can probably make the point quite forcefully, at greater length and more often through the various contacts that we have with people from China, be it from students being exposed to our system here, through to business contacts and contacts with officials. That is certainly a way of doing so.

I will not go over what the Chief Minister said. She mentioned a number of things in relation to benefits that we would get, including the fact that some of these people will be able to visit this country and see our democracy in action and, hopefully, some of that will translate back to them. (Extension of time granted.)

Some of the worst excesses in China's history in terms of repression and a complete lack of civil rights occurred when China was isolated from the rest of the world. They occurred when China closed shop during the Cultural Revolution. They occurred in the 19th century and before that when China was absolutely closed to the world. The worst excesses in terms of human rights in the Soviet Union occurred when that place was totally closed to the world. Some of the worst excesses in history occurred in the Stalinist era when it was very difficult for anyone to get in except on invited tours.

The contacts with the West which came about through the mass media and in other avenues in the 1970s and 1980s probably had a very significant effect on the decline of the Soviet Union and the Soviet empire. But it was not just the contact that led to the decline. Contact is terribly important, but another important thing for any democratic country is that it remains strong and does not compromise on its principles. I would submit that the Soviet Union was defeated with the change of system, although that is still evolving and there is a mess over there at present. It was also defeated by the fact that the West basically stood up to it. The Soviet Union did not win the arms race. The West had a strong, democratic system with strong, democratic alliances. I stress that it is crucially important for a country such as Australia to remain in that system.

I just cannot see how support for Ms Tucker's motion would assist in doing what Ms Tucker seeks to do. I think that there are other ways in which that will happen. Just looking at how events are evolving, there are some very positive signs that things will improve in China, but it means that countries which are interested in this issue and can pressure China in any way to improve the situation certainly should do so.

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