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Legislative Assembly for the ACT: 2000 Week 8 Hansard (31 August) . . Page.. 2778 ..

MR BERRY: I am talking about pre-birth.

Ms Carnell: She has the same rights as she would have with any other child.

MR BERRY: It is an issue that has not been discussed. The Chief Minister says that she has the same rights as any other person who might be pregnant. I am talking about the termination of a pregnancy where the criminal law in the ACT prohibits it. It has been regulated in this place as a result. That question really has not been addressed and it troubles me that we have not looked at the issue.

Mr Moore: Under the law any woman is entitled to a termination and she is, too.

MR BERRY: Not according to the criminal law, not according to the Crimes Act.

Mr Moore: As interpreted by the courts, yes.

MR BERRY: Mr Moore says as determined by courts.

MR TEMPORARY DEPUTY SPEAKER (Mr Hird): Order! Mr Berry, address your remarks to the chair, please.

MR BERRY: Mr Temporary Deputy Speaker, you have got to stop them from provoking me. That issue has never entered this debate because it has been a bit of a taboo. I just think that it is one that needs to be resolved. It is not going to be resolved today, but I want to put it on the record so that the Law Reform Commission, in looking at the transcript of these proceedings, at least will see it as a point that has to be addressed. I think it is an important one. One can quite easily imagine a circumstance arising where someone who has agreed to a surrogacy arrangement changes her mind about it.

Ms Carnell: It happens naturally, too; people get pregnant and change their mind.

MR BERRY: Indeed. If I can quote Mrs Carnell's interjection, contrary to the standing orders, it happens naturally; if a women is pregnant, she can make these choices. It is quite different in a surrogacy arrangement because there are other parties involved and, of course, there is some considerable expense involved for the other parties. One would expect that there would also be an overriding commitment to the relationship.

At 5.00 pm the debate was interrupted in accordance with standing order 34. The motion for the adjournment of the Assembly having been put and negatived, the debate was resumed.

MR BERRY: It is an issue that has not been properly thought through or debated. In some ways, I think the passage of this legislation strengthens the argument for decriminalising abortion in the ACT, because a surrogate mother should be entitled to a free choice in relation to this matter without having regard to the criminal law in the ACT.

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