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Legislative Assembly for the ACT: 1999 Week 5 Hansard (6 May) . . Page.. 1484 ..

MR HARGREAVES (continuing):

This is the truth of it all. There were two people who went to see the Bender family - Ms X and Ms Y. If two people come to our house and start talking to us, we assume that the conversation is a joint one. If one person is quiet, it does not mean that they disagree with the other person. In fact, we take it that there is agreement. (Extension of time granted) In Ms X's statement of 6 May she said:

The second statutory declaration which we have received, that from Ms Anna Bender, says at point 3:

I have a really big problem with the contradiction there. The statutory declaration says that something occurred, and an unsworn statement says that it did not.

I am sorry, Mr Temporary Deputy Speaker, but you and I both know the seriousness of statutory declarations. We know the precedence they take over other documents. I believe that we are obliged to believe the content of a statutory declaration, which carries with it, if it is false, the possibility of imprisonment or a significant fine. An unsworn statement carries with it nothing if it is not true. I have a big problem with that.

Mr Humphries: That is just appalling, John. It really is.

MR HARGREAVES: Mr Temporary Deputy Speaker, I beg your support.

Mr Humphries: You are saying that it is a lie. You are saying that they are lying.

MR HARGREAVES: Mr Temporary Deputy Speaker, would you like me to quote the interjections to you?

Mr Humphries: You are accusing a member of my staff of lying, Mr Hargreaves. I do take that very seriously. You should withdraw that statement.

MR TEMPORARY DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! Mr Hargreaves has the call. Mr Hargreaves, address your remarks through the Chair.

MR HARGREAVES: Thank you very much, Mr Temporary Deputy Speaker. I will address my remarks to the Chair, as indeed I have done. It has been suggested that I have said somebody has lied. I have done no such thing. What I am saying is that the credence of document A against document B is affected by whether these things are statutory declarations, oaths, affidavits, et cetera or unsworn statements. That is my position.

Another factor is Executive responsibility. Mr Moore surprised me somewhat. Normally I listen very closely to what he says, and he is usually quite good. I must congratulate him on 90 per cent of the stuff I hear from him - not this little bit, however. He made

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