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Legislative Assembly for the ACT: 1997 Week 12 Hansard (11 November) . . Page.. 3936 ..

Mr Berry: Get the Liberals to put Pauline Hanson last everywhere in Australia.

MR MOORE: Once again we have an interjection from Mr Berry; this time that if only the Liberals would agree to put Pauline Hanson last. As an outsider, whom this has no impact on whatsoever, it seems to me that it is very easy for Labor to say that, because they will get this huge advantage in doing so. I happen to think that is a good thing as well, and I have publicly supported Kim Beazley in saying it. But I do have to say that, of course, it is easy for Labor to do, because they get all the advantage and no disadvantage; whereas, in that particular situation, clearly the Liberals are going to have some political disadvantage. I still think it is what they should do, but it is a harder decision to make. Let me just add that the Draft Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples, I believe, ought to have been dealt with as a higher level international agreement.

This leads me to another difference of opinion with Mr Berry, and it is a difference of opinion; it is not just one of those cases where his facts are wrong. I believe a treaty negotiation should involve as many of the people in Australia as possible. What we have seen far too often with international treaties is that there is a quid pro quo, an advantage in effectively doing deals. The international pressure that is put on those who are signing and becoming involved in international treaties is such that it seems to me that, the more they are dealt with by the States and Territories, the more they are then brought into the community; the more light they see, the better off we are because the less opportunity there will be for this sort of international badgering to go on. Certainly, at the moment the greatest of the international badgerers is the United States, considering their widespread power, their money and the influence they have throughout the world. It seems to me that we have to be very careful to ensure that we are not just doing the lackey's job but are being very careful to consider the important issues dealing with our international treaties.

Having said that, I think one of the most important issues, although not so much for the ACT but for Australia, is the Convention to Combat Desertification, which I heard of only when the Chief Minister made her statement. As somebody who has lived on the edge of a desert for quite some years, I think there are some really interesting issues. The issues are also tied up, ironically, with climate control and greenhouse. I will be very interested to see a copy of that. I see the Chief Minister acknowledging. I appreciate that. I will get a copy. It seems to me that, being the country with the widest desert areas of all, we ought to take an interest in what goes on there and understand what it is that States such as South Australia, Western Australia and the Northern Territory in particular, New South Wales, Victoria and Queensland to a lesser extent, say and how they react to that sort of treaty, so that we can also be appropriately supportive of other Australians in dealing with such conventions and that we can use a convention such as this to ensure protection of our environment.

MS TUCKER (4.13): I would like to make a few comments on this as well. The first issue covered by Mrs Carnell was tax. I think that, in the debate, ACOSS's position on this has been a little unclear, and I would like to clarify it. My understanding of ACOSS's position is that it is very concerned about how both the major parties have narrowed the debate on tax reform. I have not understood that they have actually said, "We support a consumption tax 100 per cent". But what they have said is, "Let us stay open-minded here. Let us make this a broad debate". Members will recall that I sought to have this

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