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Legislative Assembly for the ACT: 1997 Week 9 Hansard (4 September) . . Page.. 3022 ..

MR WHITECROSS (continuing):

If guidance was required on whether we think that people in the categories that I have discussed earlier and that Mr Kaine alluded to in his remarks ought not to be granted special licences except in the most extraordinary circumstances, that guidance is also provided, Mr Speaker. In short, we have met the goal of providing guidance; but at the same time we have avoided the danger that Mr Kaine seeks to embroil us in of doing the magistrates' job for them, Mr Speaker. Let the magistrates do their job. With the amendments moved by Mr Moore, we have done our job of providing some guidance, Mr Speaker. I think that is an appropriate result. Once again, the Labor Party - yesterday it was Mr Corbell; today it is me with Mr Moore and the Greens - has helped the Minister out in dealing with an illogical policy that he has been saddled with by his colleagues.

MR SPEAKER: Order! The member's time has expired.

MR KAINE (Minister for Urban Services) (9.57): Mr Speaker, I really have to defend myself against the accusation by Mr Moore, or some such implication, that I am questioning the integrity of the magistrates. What he is overlooking is that the Chief Magistrate sought guidance. That guidance was inherent in the Bills that we prepared. Mr Moore's amendments remove a very large part of it. I have to admit that some elements of it are still there; but a very large part of it has been removed. That puts the magistrates back where they were before with, in the opinion of the Chief Magistrate, inadequate legislative guidance as to what they should and should not do under certain circumstances.

MR MOORE (9.58): It is simply not true - - -

Mr Stefaniak: Mr Speaker, is he closing the debate?

MR SPEAKER: He is speaking to his amendment.

MR MOORE: The simple truth is that the guidance that was in the legislation is still there - the same words, except that where there was a repeat we removed the repeat. Apart from that, everything that was in the legislation is there. To say that a large part is missing is simply untrue. I will choose a better word. It is simply not accurate. We have just taken the same part from the legislation except that, instead of cutting the magistrates out, we decided to trust the magistrates. We gave them guidance, as opposed to saying "no say". That was the choice - no say, or guidance. Under this legislation, they get guidance.

MR STEFANIAK (Minister for Education and Training) (9.58): I can understand why the magistrates want certain guidance in this matter.

Mr Whitecross: Where is the evidence for this? Table the request for guidance.

MR STEFANIAK: Shut up, Mr Whitecross, and you might learn something. I can say from considerable experience in the ACT courts, over a nine-year period as a prosecutor and about four years in private practice, that it is exceptionally easy, to the extent of almost becoming a joke, to get a special licence.

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