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Legislative Assembly for the ACT: 1997 Week 8 Hansard (26 August) . . Page.. 2432 ..

MR BERRY: Mr Speaker, yes. I know that you are like a hawk on these matters, and I will keep in mind, as I speak my every word, that you are watching like one. Thank you, Mr Speaker. I will go back to the question and read from the record:

... a commission which was investigating the Cook Islands tax scams - and fined $15,000 for spying on the head of the New Zealand First Party ...

I have read the rest of that into Hansard. So, Mr Speaker, the very point that we were making in all of this was that this Government appoints people who are not of good character, because they have been fined $15,000 - - -

Mrs Carnell: On a point of order again, Mr Speaker: What this censure is about is using parliamentary privilege to make comments such as that Fay Richwhite and Associates have been involved in tax rorts in the Cook Islands. It is not to do with other issues but to do with some very specific comments about Fay Richwhite and Associates having been involved in tax rorts. The fact is that they have not been, Mr Speaker - - -

Ms McRae: They were.

Mrs Carnell: The fact is that they have not been, Mr Speaker - - -

MR BERRY: They were. It just was not illegal.

Mrs Carnell: And you simply cannot use parliamentary privilege to do that. Mr Speaker, Mr Berry is not addressing those issues at all. In fact, he has not addressed that issue at all and should be ruled out of order.

Ms McRae: Mr Speaker, this is a very serious motion of censure. Mrs Carnell is choosing to interpret standing orders to her own ends and is seeking to ask for rulings that are completely irrelevant. Mr Berry has every right to defend his case. She is choosing to reinterpret words to her own ends. We said "were involved in", not "guilty of", and I greatly resent, Mr Speaker, the fact that you are not prepared to let Mr Berry put his case without this constant aggravation of irrelevant and tedious points of order.

MR BERRY: I will come to that issue, Mr Speaker.

MR SPEAKER: Just a moment. I am not going to get embroiled in interpreting "involved in" as opposed to "guilty of".

Mrs Carnell: "Have defrauded governments".

MR BERRY: I have not said that.

Mrs Carnell: You did say "have defrauded governments".

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