Page 3666 - Week 12 - Thursday, 13 October 1994
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be much easier if we had a clear system". Whether it is Professor Duckett's view that the Commonwealth have the sole responsibility or whether it is the view of certain Liberal Premiers that the Commonwealth should devolve the lot and devolve the funding to the States, at the end of the day, does not matter. But we should have some greater clarity there. A lot of this is driven by the desire to get the best deal for a State or Territory.
Why have we decided to count some neonatal cots as beds, whereas previously we had not? Why is New South Wales, on my best advice, doing the same? Mrs Carnell says that that is wrong. I rely on my health officials' advice after speaking last night to Royal Alexandra Hospital. They were told, "We are doing the equivalent thing". We are trying to maximise the extent to which we can get dollars from the Federal system into the ACT, to try to provide the best service for the ACT. That is why we are changing somewhat now.
How accurate are the historical figures in relation to beds? On some advice, again from Mr Fraser - and I think I did table this today; it is the refutation of Mrs Carnell's allegations yesterday and this morning in the Canberra Times - there may be some question marks about historical bed notes. Let me read from Mr Fraser's advice:
In the course of the hospital redevelopment project, a number of major changes occurred, such as 36 bed wards (where 36 beds were never used) were changed to 30 bed units. Some new wards will be 25 bed units. This has removed excess, unused capacity from the hospital, which is a more efficient use of available resources. The bed numbers, which previously included unused capacity, now represent resourced, available beds.
What I am being told there by the Secretary of the Department of Health is that, historically, the way that we counted beds may have been a little slapdash. We had 36-bed wards, which was more the old, traditional style of hospital. If you go to old hospitals interstate, you see the big wards. The more modern form is that the wards are smaller. We do have fewer beds as a result. Again, you can question whether the advice of officials is correct. That has been the strategy all week. Historically, we said, we had 36 beds. On that advice, I am told that they were never used; they were never available; and they were never really there. The history of bed numbers and comparing like with like - as Mrs Carnell said we must do - may be a little dubious.
Madam Speaker, the Opposition seeks to censure me for misleading the parliament. That is a very serious allegation against a Minister. In order to succeed, the Opposition has to convince Independent members - they are not going to convince us; and it does not take much to convince the Liberals - that I wilfully came in here and provided you with information that I knew to be untrue.
Mr Kaine: Or recklessly.
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