Page 3664 - Week 12 - Thursday, 13 October 1994
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This afternoon Mrs Carnell made a whole lot of allegations in relation to the 14 beds that, I am advised, we have reopened and in relation to the make-up of the 584 beds that, I am advised, we had as at September and that are referred to in the document that I tabled yesterday. That is the state of my advice and best knowledge.
I will check very carefully every allegation that Mrs Carnell made today; but members should, having listened to this debate for three days, have noted that pattern. Allegations were made on Tuesday; I came in on Wednesday and tabled documents from my department showing where many of those statements were wrong, refuting them and reconciling them. I gave to this house the advice which was given to me. New allegations were made on Wednesday; I came in today and tabled the department's advice on that. In Mrs Carnell's attack today we have a whole new set of allegations. As Mr Humphries pointed out, she completely steered clear of the allegation, "You have conned us over the beds at Calvary". The documents that I tabled at the end of question time prove that Mrs Carnell had knowledge of this in 1991, because she was a member of the Board of Health, which endorsed that report. I wonder, Madam Speaker and members, if I had kept them in my back pocket until we were on the censure motion, whether Mrs Carnell would have been as silent on those Calvary beds or whether she would have said in the parliament what she was saying to the TV cameras at lunchtime and what she was saying to the Canberra Times last night, as reported this morning, namely, "The Minister has been conning you over those 20 beds at Calvary; they have never been included". Now she says, "I always knew that they had been included". Who is conning whom?
Madam Speaker, as I said, again at question time, I come into the house and give the information that is given to me by officials. When it is questioned by members I go away, have the members' allegations looked at, and come back and report to the house. I am not in a position to refute all the allegations that Mrs Carnell made some 15 minutes ago in relation to the beds that I identified yesterday, other than that, in relation to Mrs Carnell's unequivocal statement that the four oncology beds were not and had not been opened, I am told by the department that that was - a term for manure. We will check, and I will come back into this house at the next sitting with, or release to members before, the response from departmental officials.
As I said in question time, the sort of attack we have had all this week on this matter is something better dealt with in the Estimates Committee. If the Opposition was saying that I knew a certain set of facts and came in and made up other facts, or if the Opposition was alleging that the department had advised me of X and I came in and said Y, that is a very proper basis for censure. I accept that. In fact, the Opposition is saying, "The Minister keeps coming back to the parliament and telling us what the department is telling him. He even tables the documents, but we reckon that the documents are wrong; we do not like the methodology that has been used". They are issues that are best dealt with by the officials through the Estimates Committee. I am more than happy for us to spend as much time as you would like on that. How and why do we count beds in hospitals? We are trying, increasingly, to get better at it. Like all things in ACT Health, we are trying to get better at it; and we consistently are.
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