Page 4106 - Week 13 - Wednesday, 24 November 1993
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MR BERRY: You would have to ask them that. In terms of industrial relations, there is, of course, the possibility of conflict and disagreement as things occur. People sometimes disagree about the management of their award clauses, but both sides have to live with that.
Now we get to the doctors. Mrs Carnell has been singing the praises of the doctors. The Liberal lackeys of the militant doctors - - -
Mrs Carnell: No, I have not. I said that they were bloody-minded, just like you were.
Ms Follett: Mr Deputy Speaker, really, the amount of interjection that Mrs Carnell is being permitted is, I think, quite out of order. It really is detracting from what the Minister has to say. If Mrs Carnell has an interest in the matter she ought to hear the response to her own remarks.
MR DEPUTY SPEAKER: I would recommend that both sides take note of that comment.
MR BERRY: I care, though, because I am speaking.
MR DEPUTY SPEAKER: You were, too, when Mrs Carnell was speaking. I would ask all members to remember that. Please proceed.
MR BERRY: The health industry in the Western world is undergoing fundamental reform and Australia is not exempt from this; but still, Mrs Humphries - Mrs Carnell - - -
Members interjected.
MR BERRY: Well, you never know; they both use the same web of deception. It is a bit hard to tell them apart.
Mr Humphries: Wait until my wife finds out. Oh, my God!
MR BERRY: I have to say that it has been a bit tedious going through this over and over again, but I have to go through it. One is sometimes distracted and it is fairly difficult to tell one Liberal apart from the other.
MR DEPUTY SPEAKER: You may take a point of personal explanation later, Mr Humphries.
MR BERRY: Mrs Carnell again chose to look at all the wrong measures and not the big picture, because she whinged about the number of beds. Strangely enough, with the number of beds that we have, and with our more efficient use of them, we have been able to treat more and more people, and we expect to continue to do that. As Mrs Carnell knows but will not admit - she keeps it quiet - that increased performance by the hospital system usually means that waiting lists grow, for some unknown reason. Usually it is because doctors refer more people to the hospital system. So you end up with more pressure on waiting lists as the throughput of the hospital system grows. None of it makes too much sense and that is why you cannot use it as a measure. It is an inappropriate measure.
Mr Humphries: That is not what you said a few months ago.
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