Page 2754 - Week 11 - Tuesday, 20 October 1992
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MR BERRY: Mr Moore says that the national guidelines are out of touch. Do the Liberals agree that they are out of touch? Did Mrs Carnell tell you about this? No, she did not. The national guidelines state that precautions must be taken to ensure that there is no substitution of urine specimens and that pathology results are accurate, provided speedily and cover a range of drugs. Mr Moore says that the guidelines are out of touch. Do the Liberals say that they are out of touch?
Mr Kaine: Do you agree that they are out of touch, Minister?
MR BERRY: I do not. They are the national guidelines, and they were endorsed by Mr Humphries when he was on the MCDS. But the select committee suggested that adherence to nationally accepted urinalysis procedures is unnecessary. Mr Moore says that they are out of touch; Mrs Carnell did not tell her Liberals that Mr Moore thinks they are out of touch; Mr Humphries did not tell the Liberals that he at least supports them. Finding out what the Liberals are up to is a bit difficult from time to time. It is a little bit like a lottery. The position clearly has the potential to seriously risk the safety of clients receiving methadone, who run the risk of lethal overdose or dangerous intoxication.
Secondly, the select committee believes that linking the provision of takeaway doses to a history of clean urinalysis is unnecessary and punitive. The committee also believes that takeaway dosing should be liberalised. Did you agree to that, Mr Humphries, when you were on the MCDS? No, you did not.
Mr Humphries: Did you agree?
MR BERRY: No, I did not. The committee believes that takeaway dosing should be liberalised and restrictions lifted; but the national guidelines clearly state that takeaway dosing should be kept to a minimum, for reasons of safety to clients. Mr Humphries agrees with that, because he was on the MCDS that endorsed the guidelines. Mr Moore says that the guidelines are out of touch. These people are all over the place.
Mr Moore has cast a spell over Mrs Carnell on this issue. Mr Moore has said, "We will give it to private pharmacies; do not worry about that. I will look after all of these out of touch recommendations of the MCDS". Yes, he will look after them all right. Mr Moore might like to start a little social laboratory in the ACT; but this Government is not going to have a bar of it, and we are not going to move unilaterally. We are going to do it in conjunction with the MCDS, the same as your Government did, Mr Kaine, when you were in power. Mr Humphries agreed to do it that way because he was on the MCDS.
Mr Moore: Nobody else operates the way we have suggested - like New South Wales.
MR BERRY: There is 20 per cent slippage in New South Wales, Mr Moore. Is that all right?
Mr Moore: Yes.
MR BERRY: That is all okay - 20 per cent on the black market. That is a risk you are prepared to take. Interstate transfers of prescriptions also involve detailed consideration of these safety aspects and may involve a waiting period for some clients. The waiting period and the use of urinalysis is not intended as
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