Page 492 - Week 02 - Thursday, 14 May 1992
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Ms Follett: That is not custody, though, is it?
MR HUMPHRIES: I know that. I bear that in mind, Chief Minister. It is not custody, but it is some evidence of what is happening in the courts. I will not produce those figures, because it is a long table; but there are figures on the number of Aborigines in prison in other gaols outside the ACT that have been sentenced by ACT courts.
If you could expect a rate of being in custody of 29 times the white rate, you could expect a reasonably high figure; but this report says that in the last two censuses, those of 1989 and 1990, there were no Aboriginal prisoners identified, and in each of 1987 and 1988, the preceding two years, there was only one in each of those years. One would expect a rather higher figure than that if we had a problem with Aboriginals being sentenced by ACT courts to custody in New South Wales gaols; but that is not the case, according to this report. Obviously, we have a further set of figures to look at, and that is rates of Aboriginals in custody in our lockups and remand centre, which is not yet available. That is the information that I assume the Chief Minister was talking about when she made those comments the other day.
Looking at the evidence contained in those other documents, it is not entirely clear whether we do have a particularly high incarceration rate in the ACT. I assume that it is also equally clear that we do not have a particularly high rate of deaths in custody in the ACT. It does raise this basic question, Madam Speaker: Are the underlying problems which have been addressed by the royal commission and which form the basis of its recommendations, which have been largely accepted by the ACT and other governments, actually applicable in the ACT? Are we actually dealing with a problem which is a real problem in the ACT?
We are getting money from the Commonwealth. I do not say that we should not take money from the Commonwealth - of course we should - but in this case are we spending it wisely, given the lack of information about the basic problem we are dealing with? I do not know. It is quite conceivable that our position in the ACT could be quite superior to that of other States. I point, for one thing, to our police force. I am quite convinced, as I said this morning, that we have a much better police force than is enjoyed by most other States and Territories. That being the case, it would not be unreasonable to expect that we would have, as a result, somewhat more responsible behaviour on the part of those police towards Aboriginals in custody.
The data collection question is quite critical to this problem and I think that should be understood on both sides of the house. I am pleased to see that this is being addressed by the Government. (Extension of time granted) Thank you, members. The Government said in its response:
Our current lack of statistics too easily allows these people to be invisible. Such statistics are needed if we are to effectively respond to the needs of the community. The ACT is committed to improving the collection of statistics in a wide range of areas including health and the criminal justice system.
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